TOPIC: Debating on waiting until the "low gains issue" is sorted out with different batches of PMMA

The fact it seems to be happening with 2 Dr's, both using the same product, does add to the suspicion there could be something wrong. Again we need to stress that the sample size of patients is far too low to draw any conclusions, but I just don't remember periods when guys were gaining next to nothing from 30%. There were times when guys who had 10%, having previously already had a 20% procedure, didn't see gains, but that made sense.

Really we need someone to collect the data from the last 6 months and compare it to that Bricep collected last year. I'm not doing it, as I'm not getting PMMA. But if I were one of you planning on it, then that's what I'd do.

The sample size is big enough to cause massive concerns. Can u point to another time in PMMA history where EVERYONE was getting shitty results??

There is clearly an issue.

On another note, has anyone who inquired to the docs about these concerns gotten a response? I haven't. It's weird because when I contacted them regarding spending money the response was immediate.

Kawkaw wrote: The sample size is big enough to cause massive concerns.

Certainly justified in our concerns, but the sample size is woefully inadequate.

What could make the sample data more legit is if patients with modest (or even great) gains can come forward who have dealt with Metacrill in the past few months. If there is a lack of (or none at all) such reports, it's far more damning to the product.

I'll be busy this week but I'm curious to analyze progress reports that coincide chronologically with reports of poor gains, see if any guys manage to grow despite some who haven't. A lack in such reports isn't conclusive, but can really raise further questions.

going back to statistics a minimum sample size of greater than or equal to 30 would be a large enough sample size to produce some data. But a significantly larger sample size of 100 or more patients, one could draw more reliable conclusions. A sample size in medicine tends to be much smaller than a cnn opinion poll, yet that's the ultimate difference between quantitative data & opinion polls. We have a large enough sample size on this forum, but analyzing & interpreting the data, that would require unpaid time. If another member wishes to join me next month we can look through all the reports and make sense of it, because i ain't going to do that task just for the fun of it. Stating there's a trend without working it out is not even doing 1/2 the work.

Well seeing as I just got the 30% I think my progress will hold a lot of importance to this thread. If I get good gains I think it's clear that it's a problem of individual response and not the product, however if I don't there's still no conclusion.

I'd also like to state, for whatever it's worth, I don't think it's the product. What would make it not work as effectively? The PMMA beads are there and your body response to it is to make collagen. Unless metacril isn't putting anything into their injectable but how stupid would your company have to be to Basically commit with that stunt. If it were by some strange reason the product we'd find more information looking into other procedures done with metacril. If they are sill getting results than that says a lot. I personally think there has always been poor responders to the treatment, and that many just never started a thread because they saw it as a "bust". Maybe now were just seeing it.

Yeah, that's a good point. What do the Metacril distributors have to gain by putting fewer beads in their mix, when I'm sure the beads themselves are virtually free to them. Hmm. Very odd.

My hunch is that if it is counterfeit, we would've heard of an infection or more serious side effect. I think something is wrong with the formula. Maybe they tried to make it cheaper and messed up more than they anticipated. Artefill and Artecoll went through a few revisions due to issues with manufacturing...it's not that easy to produce microspheres of PMMA in a colloid. It's possible there are fewer beads, or maybe the solvents aren't being chelated out right, or who knows what. A chemist would have to analyze a sample. There are 5 total ingredients in the product listed on the box.

I'd be happy to help with the patient outcome analysis, but we need really good data on preexisting size, ccs, what percentage, what date people went, and how far out they are measuring the gains that they are reporting. I don't trust any gains under 3 months based on my experience with shrinkage.

It wont be counterfeit as they will buy directly from Metacril. I remember when there was even talk of Metacril possibly producing a 20% solution especially for Dr C, so he must be buying straight from them.

If there is a problem, I can only think it could be with the carrier and for some reason it's taking longer to absorb, so can migrate. I'm pretty sure water based carriers are key to Bioplasty, as they absorb so much quicker than collagen carriers. At the end of the day all Metacril is, is beads and carrier. They aren't going to have changed the amount of beads they put in, as that would be totally pointless. If there is an issue, it can surely only be related to the carrier.

Also - does anyone know where the boards are where people do body implants of PMMA? I met a woman in the waiting room who was having her butt done - with Dr. C - so I googled a bit but I can't find much out there. If they are also having bad gains, then it would be important to know.

I made a post about the quote I got from the chemist & material scientists. Unfortunately it's $1200 - but if 10-20 people want to pitch in...it could be cheaper than the car to TJ. Of course I don't know if Dr. C will send some of his product to the lab yet, but maybe someone who has a good relationship with him can ask. I think I've had a good relationship with the staff there - but I am sort of not the best at asking/convincing people of a request like this.

Restoration wrote: Also - does anyone know where the boards are where people do body implants of PMMA? I met a woman in the waiting room who was having her butt done - with Dr. C - so I googled a bit but I can't find much out there. If they are also having bad gains, then it would be important to know.

I made a post about the quote I got from the chemist & material scientists. Unfortunately it's $1200 - but if 10-20 people want to pitch in...it could be cheaper than the car to TJ. Of course I don't know if Dr. C will send some of his product to the lab yet, but maybe someone who has a good relationship with him can ask. I think I've had a good relationship with the staff there - but I am sort of not the best at asking/convincing people of a request like this.

This is irrelevant to this topic, but was the girl waiting hot? Lol. And what do u say if they ask u what are you getting done? I always thought about that. I would just try not to make conversation with anyone and keep my headphones on.

she looked friendly...so we were just chatting - I was asking where she came from and how she found dr. c. I wasn't just like "SO how's your ASS?!" I actually had no idea that was what she was getting done until she volunteered the info. She never asked what I'm getting done. I think the plastic surgery waiting room decorum is that you just make small talk - and let the person volunteer info. We were talking for so long that I ended up mildly hinting at the penis procedure...lol...i mean, 2 americans sitting in a TJ Dermatologist waiting room for an hour - you become friends. haha. She had her butt botched by someone who did lipo on her...so she's trying to rebuild what they sucked out. I think she might also have had implants that she had to remove cuz they were bad... i forgot... I can't remember if she was hot. I only remember good looking women in rare cases - sorry.. lol. gay brain.

Hello all,

I sent Wade an email this week regarding low Girth concerns and this was his response as of today.


Hello,

Several months back we had reports of low gains, and found that it was due to more than one variable. These concerns were substantiated, and this has not been an issue since. We have had only one recent complaint, and he was sent his before and after photos, and realized that substantial gains were achieved. Please let me know how recent the posts, and I will bring it to Dr. C's attention.

The only product option available is Metacril, which has proven effective for the past 10 years of our use.

Please feel free to contact me with any additional questions.

uptownblk wrote: Hello all, I sent Wade an email this week regarding low Girth concerns and this was his response as of today. Hello, Several months back we had reports of low gains, and found that it was due to more than one variable. These concerns were substantiated, and this has not been an issue since. We have had only one recent complaint, and he was sent his before and after photos, and realized that substantial gains were achieved. Please let me know how recent the posts, and I will bring it to Dr. C's attention. The only product option available is Metacril, which has proven effective for the past 10 years of our use. Please feel free to contact me with any additional questions.

hey, can you PM me the email you used to contact him? ( i have tried to contact them multiple time in the past on a few different emails and I never get a response) thanks man

Hmm, I wonder what the 'more than one variables' were.