TOPIC: Considering Belladerm--please advise

Every person should make their own mind up in relationship of having any procedures done..They should pay no attention to others opinions. Each procedure has it positives and negatives. Reading the negative statements are only one persons view, and we know they should be taken very lightly...

I had Belladerm in August 2010, in fact I spoke to Kingpin as I had backed out just before surgery, then following our discussion decided to proceed.

This was a mistake. If I have one piece of advice for any guy especially a young guy who has not yet had kids - leave your Dick alone!

I had three procedures, curvature correction (curved to the left), lig detachment and Belladerm implant. Following surgery I lost an Inch in length, so I did the stretching exercises and after a few months got back to my original length (6.0), but no more as the length of the implant protruded out on the end.

I noticed after 6 months that the Belladerm was being absorbed but it was very little and honestly I was ok with it as the implant which was obvious and becoming less obvious, more natural. There was a period of about a year when I was relatively happy with the appearance...........appearance, because during this time I discovered a problem.

The nerves which had been severed during the surgery did not heal the loss of feeling on the top side of the shaft never returned. Dr R told me on the way back from surgery to the hotel that there would be no feeling and that "the tip was the business end anyway".....not so, the effect even though total loss of feeling is only on the top of the shaft is that it is not possible for me to ejaculate during intercourse......ever, this can be done only through manual stimulation of the tip.

So if you are young, and you want to have kids, try and figure out how you are going to get that done...

So now two years later, yes the Belladerm is absorbing.....which would be ok.....BUT it doesn't simply shrink in thickness, it also shrinks in length and width, so it is pulling on the shaft....curling my Erect penis up and back, at a surprising rate. I now have a strange upward and to the left curl...which is getting worse.Aug 2010 (pre) stats:Natural curve to the left6.0” length4.0-4.25 Girth Sept 2011 stats:Straight!!6.0” length (after 2 months of weights)4.75 Girth J Sept 2012 stats:Curve to the leftAnd curved upwards especially the head5.0” length4.625 Girth
-$10,000

I admit at one year I was happy with the shape and size, I thought I would get to keep that, even though I was not able to ejaculate during penetration. Now, however two years later I see it curving upwards towards the implant more every morning when I wake with an Erection. I am educated, successful and ………….single, and I expect I will probably stay that way - it’s embarrassing, stupid……..where I will end up with this is anyones guess

hunkydory wrote: Stacking Belladerm or Alloderm is really bad and I don't think Dr.'s do it - even if they say they do. It is the most expensive part of the procedure, and more importantly the graft needs to be in contact with the skin on both sides to grow a blood supply. When they are stacked, the middle layer does not come in contact with a blood supply and ends up being a petrie dish for bacteria and leads to infection. Any doctor that says he stacks is either ignorant, reckless or lying to you to get your business. If you talk to one that says he stacks I'd ask him what he does to prevent infection and for the middle of the stacked graft that has no blood supply. (I have gotten all this info from Dr. Reed).

I'm almost certain Rosenthal does stack them. I think it's why he doesn't want patients to shower for a month and only makes one incision.

The reason I asked is because I know of 4 members who have had either shortening and/or curvature following Belladerm surgery. They are all Rosenthal patients. So I'm wondering if it's due to blood supply issue's from stacking the sheets. As you know I'm considering a graft with Dr Solomon and I'm worried about the graft contracting over time, due to lack of blood supply. But I know he doesn't stack sheets and I'm hoping that Articsky is a Rosenthal patient, as I'm really hoping these issues are due to stacking sheets.

richard wrote: I understand your point of view and agree with you. My point was when your making an important medical decision you need to research your medical facts. Because so much plays in to the personality of the person and how they react to some thing. Many times whether your talking about , cancer, plastic, surgery,etc, it is negative people who take the time to post. I had the experience w my prostrate cancer and found three fourths what I read was a bunch of crap.'

I agree with some of what you say Richard, but the fact of the matter is your successful case is an exception rather than the norm.
PE is still at its pioneering stages and when we research, we are left with the option of taking what the doctor says at face value or message boards such as this to get first hand experience reports. Finding an unbiased, 3rd party report on the outcome of a statistically significant amount of PE surgeries (for any doctor) is basically impossible because most of the doctors don't want the world to know the failure rate.

Could you imagine if a prospective patient of the implant doctor (Dr. Elist) only relied on
the literature on the Internet about the implant (written by Dr. Elist himself) or his face-to-face hard sell consultation with the good doctor to make his decision, without paying attention to the countless horror stories that have come out on this board and others?
Would you consider that an informed decision?

I understand your point of view and agree with you. My point was when your making an important medical decision you need to research your medical facts. Because so much plays in to the personality of the person and how they react to some thing. Many times whether your talking about , cancer, plastic, surgery,etc, it is negative people who take the time to post. I had the experience w my prostrate cancer and found three fourths what I read was a bunch of crap.

richard wrote: If you had a micro penis that made having sex difficult or were suffering from truly debilitating self esteem issues because of your penis, then there is a good argument that it is worth the risk. But in your case, don't you have too much to lose. I understand how you feel and really meant it when I said I'd be delighted if there was a consistently effective and safe way to enlarge the penis, as it would change my life. But there just isn't. Because you so badly want a bigger penis it sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that it's a good decision to have it done, when really you know it isn't. I know what it's like as I've done it myself. Voices of reason such as mine are probably incredibly irritating and I know when i was researching enlargement options I did my best to filter them out.
THE ABOVE POST IS TOTALLY INCORRECT... The first sentence says "IF YOU..." AND HIS RAGE AND DISORIENTED MIND TURNS THE REST OF THE PARAGRAPH INTO FACTUAL ABOUT ME,,, Such a positive leader.. Such a shame of one of our leaders to do....

Richard, you'll need to settle down friend. Hoddle clearly quoted Maximus and was clearly responding to Maximus. He didn't once cite you by name or your specific situation. I understand these procedures can be sensitive topics, but we mustn't get carried away.
And a lot of what he said was valid, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Thanks SO and Hoddle, for the prompt feedback. Good point about few PE surgeons but my sense is that this is at least in part due to the lack of FDA approval. Still a great point to consider nonetheless.

By the way, if Rosenthal performs 6 surgeries per week (as stated on the Dr Drew show, and consistent with him telling me that he has done >5000 allo/Bella surgeries over 20 yrs), why doesn't he publish the comprehensive results in a medical journal? Is it likely that the number of procedures is significantly exaggerated?

Hoddle, I have discussed this extensively with my wife and while she's not in favor of the idea, she is supportive. Perhaps because she is having breast enlargement at the end of the year

Max

Mm Your last post is very correct.. With the number of people I have met either in Dr Rosenthal's office and on the Internet they are very happy with their results..I investigated the different methods and read most if not all posts.. Any surgery, and injections of PMMA may cause long term problems...I have posted the positive results that I have here.But the majority of this site are PMMA people which if fine with me and I would never speak against it.. It just did not meet my criteria. thanks

Just thought I'd post because people are asking. Yes, my Belladerm has turned into a hard strip on the top of my penis, only about an Inch wide now... as if it shrunk laterally and up the sides. Still more Girth than before, but now very aware of it and it is a lot harder. It started a the 1 year mark. It's been 1.5 years now. I'm not buying the smoking thing, only because I started smoking when this started happening... freaking me out... and I stopped after a bit anyway. Dr. R injected a steroid in an area towards the top which had amased some scar tissue, and it shrunk / softened. I'm to go back for 2 more treatments.

ugh

Maximus wrote: Just for the sake of discussion...

I fully agree with the comments that PE surgery carries significant risk and there have been many reports of serious problems (especially FFT and Ellist implant). On the other hand, I've heard of more positive than negative reports (albeit few overall) on Rosenthal and Belladerm.

What if he doesn't publish his results simply because he doesn't need to? If he averages 6 surgeries per week at $10K, why advertise? In fact, publication of successful results may encourage other docs to jump on the bandwagon. The default answer seems to be that docs don't publish PE surgery outcomes because of the negative aspects, however I wonder if it's reasonable think about it from the opposite perspective.

Not suggesting this is what I believe, just curious about what others think of the idea.

Max

How many people on this site do we know who have had surgery with Rosenthal? I'd say roughly 10 and not many long term cases. Rondo I think is the longest and his graft started to decline after 8 years, though he was very happy with it. Smartman and his friend Silicone Disaster both saw their grafts from Rosenthal fully absorb in less than a year. Yardstick saw his graft virtually fully absorb in less than a year. Soma went from 6.1" to 5.8" in the first year. This year he's obviously lost a similar amount as after 2 PMMA treatments he's 6". So how long will it be until his graft fully absorbs? Nomad had problems with his first surgery and had to have the grafts removed. He then hinted at problems with the new graft, but deleted his posts. In fact other than Kingpol (sp?) do we know of any longer term Rosenthal patients who haven't seen their graft absorb having had the surgery for more than 2 years?
I don't have a problem with the guy, but these grafts don't have a great track record. I've been following the PE industry for years and if dermal matrix grafts really were the answer I'd be delighted. If there really was a safe and consistent way to enlarge the penis, by simply grafting donor tissue, it would be amazing news, but there isn't and the reason others aren't doing it isn't because Rosenthal hasn't published his brilliant results.
In other areas of plastic surgery these grafts are often described as semi permanent and expected to last between 2 and 10 years. There will be cases that last longer than 10 years and as we've seen with our members here, cases that last last less than 2 years. Rosenthal saying they are permanent is a bit misleading in my opinion. In some applications (other areas of the body) they might be, but clearly not the penis.
When you consider the very real risks of infection, shortening, curvature and loss of sensitivity, then you have to ask is it worth the risk for a surgery that on average will last about 5 years? As you say it costs $10,000 and unless the members of this forum and numerous plastic surgeons are lying, it isn't permanent and of course there are serious risks involved with surgery.
If you had a micro penis that made having sex difficult or were suffering from truly debilitating self esteem issues because of your penis, then there is a good argument that it is worth the risk. But in your case, don't you have too much to lose. I understand how you feel and really meant it when I said I'd be delighted if there was a consistently effective and safe way to enlarge the penis, as it would change my life. But there just isn't. Because you so badly want a bigger penis it sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that it's a good decision to have it done, when really you know it isn't. I know what it's like as I've done it myself. Voices of reason such as mine are probably incredibly irritating and I know when i was researching enlargement options I did my best to filter them out.