TOPIC: Considering Belladerm--please advise

richard wrote: Hoddle10Just a question- If a man feels the need to increase his Girth or length, is it your feeling that he should not proceed?

If there were consistently reliable and safe methods to increase the length and Girth, then in most cases I'd advise him to as he pleases. However, things aren't that simple as the current techniques have a very poor track record and the consequences of a bad result can be utterly devastating.

I'm not married, but if I was I'd support my wife if she wanted a boob job because of the safety track record of the procedure. However, if I was a woman, i'd never support my husband having any sort of penis enhancement, unless we felt it absolutely necessary for his mental well being. This is because the track record of these procedures is appalling.


The key to making a good decision with these types of procedures is not to allow yourself to think in an illogical way on order to come the conclusion that the decision you want to make is the right one. We are nearly all guilty of doing this and I have done so myself, much to my regret. Hence I understand why you'd say to yourself lack of FDA approval is the reason so few do these procedures, but really if you think about it, is that in line with your perception of how the cosmetic surgery industry works?

The reason so few Dr's don't do it has nothing to do with FDA approval. You don't need FDA approval, as thousands of FDA approved products are used in off label procedures. I always find it odd when people genuinely believe that Dr's in the US don't do PMMA as it isn't FDA approved. See how many change their minds the moment the Artefil patent runs out! Btw don't get PMMA either.

Maximus,

Rosenthal likely does perform many procedures.' The reason he does not publish is because long term results are very bad.'' As Hoddle mentioned FDA approval is a non factor.'' PMMA is NOT safer.' The company that developed artefil went bankrupt ! Many doctors outside the US/Europe get the filler from low cost suppliers in mainland China.' Read the reviews where people where injected more than 3 years ago in the butt and you will witness many horror stories about pain and granulomas.'' ditto for guys injected in the penis in Brazil.

Do not be foolish and compare Belladerm with breast enhancement.'' One has and excellent safety record while the other is terrible.'' I know guys who developed ED, peyronies, and others who have to urinate with a Catheter because they made the mistake of convincing themselves they needed to have Girth enhancement.

It is human nature to focus on the upside but turn a blind eye to the possible disastrous results of a botched surgery.

Max Your exactly correct.. Most of the people that speak against Belladerm do not really understand why it replaced Alloderm. Also most of not all of these people have never met with Dr and learned what and why his industry as changed from early fat injections...You have to filer out people that have THEIR own ideas what is right and wrong and have not done anything but read articles that are PRO their favorite method... It is very good to do you home work.. Richard

Just for the sake of discussion...

I fully agree with the comments that PE surgery carries significant risk and there have been many reports of serious problems (especially FFT and Ellist implant). On the other hand, I've heard of more positive than negative reports (albeit few overall) on Rosenthal and Belladerm.

What if he doesn't publish his results simply because he doesn't need to? If he averages 6 surgeries per week at $10K, why advertise? In fact, publication of successful results may encourage other docs to jump on the bandwagon. The default answer seems to be that docs don't publish PE surgery outcomes because of the negative aspects, however I wonder if it's reasonable think about it from the opposite perspective.

Not suggesting this is what I believe, just curious about what others think of the idea.

Max

In case it might be helpful to others, I'm copying and pasting an excerpt from an email exchange I had with Dr Rosenthal, June 2012.

Max

My Question:
Does the belloderm absorb/dissolve/decrease significantly over time, resulting in the need for another procedure? 'If so, how long does it last?

Response:
I have been using Belladerm for about 3 years and longterm appears to have very little shrinkage compared to Alloderm. The amount of shrinkage is variable and seems to be most in smokers.

I had a business for 30 years and yes did run ads.. For 5 of our 30 years.. After that we survived by word of mouth which is the best way to advertise... Dr R is a progressive doctor. Just running ads does not give anyone a positive attitude with getting involved. Word of mouth is by far the best for many reasons...

I will never understand why some women would tell their partners they had "bigger ones" with previous men when they are in a committed relationship (knowing for a fact it will hurt their man's feelings forever)! It is like telling your wife she is fat...she will never forget nor forgive you. If you were asked by your wife/GF if you had a tighter pussy in your previous relationships, what would your answer be? I hate lying, but there are very few instances where lying is preferred to save your partner's feelings....For some reason, some women decide to be honest at the wrong time.

Women who had vaginal births are at a lot lower risk with vaginal tightening surgery than men with surgical PE such as implant, Alloderm or Belladerm, and the cost is almost the same if not cheaper.

Every person should make their own mind up in relationship of having any procedures done..They should pay no attention to others opinions. Each procedure has it positives and negatives. Reading the negative statements are only one persons view, and we know they should be taken very lightly...

richard wrote: I understand your point of view and agree with you. My point was when your making an important medical decision you need to research your medical facts. Because so much plays in to the personality of the person and how they react to some thing. Many times whether your talking about , cancer, plastic, surgery,etc, it is negative people who take the time to post. I had the experience w my prostrate cancer and found three fourths what I read was a bunch of crap.'

I agree with some of what you say Richard, but the fact of the matter is your successful case is an exception rather than the norm.
PE is still at its pioneering stages and when we research, we are left with the option of taking what the doctor says at face value or message boards such as this to get first hand experience reports. Finding an unbiased, 3rd party report on the outcome of a statistically significant amount of PE surgeries (for any doctor) is basically impossible because most of the doctors don't want the world to know the failure rate.

Could you imagine if a prospective patient of the implant doctor (Dr. Elist) only relied on
the literature on the Internet about the implant (written by Dr. Elist himself) or his face-to-face hard sell consultation with the good doctor to make his decision, without paying attention to the countless horror stories that have come out on this board and others?
Would you consider that an informed decision?

I understand your point of view and agree with you. My point was when your making an important medical decision you need to research your medical facts. Because so much plays in to the personality of the person and how they react to some thing. Many times whether your talking about , cancer, plastic, surgery,etc, it is negative people who take the time to post. I had the experience w my prostrate cancer and found three fourths what I read was a bunch of crap.

richard wrote: If you had a micro penis that made having sex difficult or were suffering from truly debilitating self esteem issues because of your penis, then there is a good argument that it is worth the risk. But in your case, don't you have too much to lose. I understand how you feel and really meant it when I said I'd be delighted if there was a consistently effective and safe way to enlarge the penis, as it would change my life. But there just isn't. Because you so badly want a bigger penis it sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that it's a good decision to have it done, when really you know it isn't. I know what it's like as I've done it myself. Voices of reason such as mine are probably incredibly irritating and I know when i was researching enlargement options I did my best to filter them out.
THE ABOVE POST IS TOTALLY INCORRECT... The first sentence says "IF YOU..." AND HIS RAGE AND DISORIENTED MIND TURNS THE REST OF THE PARAGRAPH INTO FACTUAL ABOUT ME,,, Such a positive leader.. Such a shame of one of our leaders to do....

Richard, you'll need to settle down friend. Hoddle clearly quoted Maximus and was clearly responding to Maximus. He didn't once cite you by name or your specific situation. I understand these procedures can be sensitive topics, but we mustn't get carried away.
And a lot of what he said was valid, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Thanks SO and Hoddle, for the prompt feedback. Good point about few PE surgeons but my sense is that this is at least in part due to the lack of FDA approval. Still a great point to consider nonetheless.

By the way, if Rosenthal performs 6 surgeries per week (as stated on the Dr Drew show, and consistent with him telling me that he has done >5000 allo/Bella surgeries over 20 yrs), why doesn't he publish the comprehensive results in a medical journal? Is it likely that the number of procedures is significantly exaggerated?

Hoddle, I have discussed this extensively with my wife and while she's not in favor of the idea, she is supportive. Perhaps because she is having breast enlargement at the end of the year

Max

Mm Your last post is very correct.. With the number of people I have met either in Dr Rosenthal's office and on the Internet they are very happy with their results..I investigated the different methods and read most if not all posts.. Any surgery, and injections of PMMA may cause long term problems...I have posted the positive results that I have here.But the majority of this site are PMMA people which if fine with me and I would never speak against it.. It just did not meet my criteria. thanks