--- title: "PMMA or Ellanse? - PhalloBoards - Phalloboards" description: "Ok so I have come to a fork in the road. My two options are: Ellanse, the 4 year version here in London with Moorgate or Androfil.... - Page 3" url: "https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/general-phalloplasty-discussion-archive/9886212-pmma-or-ellanse.html?start=30" date: "2026-08-06T12:01:23+00:00" language: "en-GB" --- PhalloBoards - An Online Community to Discuss Penile Girth Enhancement General Forum Doctors Forum Username Password Remember me - [ Forgot your password? ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/component/users/reset.html?Itemid=101) - [ Forgot your username? ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/component/users/remind.html?Itemid=101) - [ Create an account ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) # TOPIC: PMMA or Ellanse? ## Re: PMMA or Ellanse? 7 years 9 months ago [\#1305846462](#1305846462) - **[biggy](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5836159-biggy.html "View biggy's Profile")** - [![biggy's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5836159-biggy.html "View biggy's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5836159-biggy.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 107 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=5836159) I think I read every single progress report before deciding on PMMA. Lots were several years old. Yet the only two examples I found that required surgical intervention were Darkstaff and Restoration. In both cases their issues started within the first year. DS after about 6 months and Restoration pretty much straightaway. So from that perspective it's hard to see the advantage of Ellanse, especially the 3 or 4 year versions. Also I don't think Darkstaff received the correct treatment. He went for surgery way too soon. I don't think he got a steroid shot to the area and I don't think he had antibiotics. Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTg4NjIxMi1wbW1hLW9yLWVsbGFuc2UuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0xJnN0YXJ0PTMw) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: PMMA or Ellanse? 7 years 9 months ago [\#1306069183](#1306069183) - **[Dekachin](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2034978-dekachin.html "View Dekachin's Profile")** - [![Dekachin's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2034978-dekachin.html "View Dekachin's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2034978-dekachin.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 111 - Thanks: 7 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=2034978) > think wrote: Ellanse is 30 percent PCL. > > [ drsiew.com/ellanse-everything-need-know-...-stimulating-filler/](https://drsiew.com/ellanse-everything-need-know-collagen-stimulating-filler/) > > See the graph which indicates when the carrier is gone. > > I have been unable to find anything about how long the generated collagen lasts, other than a post by Dr oates saying that the half-life is 15 years. I am guessing he may have gotten that from a non public access medical journal. The graph was very accurate for me. I'm just at the 12 weeks mark now. Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTg4NjIxMi1wbW1hLW9yLWVsbGFuc2UuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0xJnN0YXJ0PTMw) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: PMMA or Ellanse? 7 years 9 months ago [\#1305851071](#1305851071) - **[biggy](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5836159-biggy.html "View biggy's Profile")** - [![biggy's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5836159-biggy.html "View biggy's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5836159-biggy.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 107 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=5836159) > think wrote: The second quote above has nothing to do with the first. The concern he notes is about the possibility of issues decades down the road. Yeah, we have a lot of PMMA data, but nothing that long term. And even in the PMMA study there were a lot of non-responders, which is another concern he notes. So limiting the timeframe of that concern to 4 years huge benefit for Ellanse, IMO. > Teenagers absolutely should not do PMMA. But if you care about having a functioning penis 10, 20 or 30 years down the road, then that same logic advise applies to you. Wade told me they had guys in their 60s and even 70s having PMMA... so think long term guys [/QUOTE] Alter isn't making a prediction, he's just warning caution. He's not presenting evidence etc. He's just saying what anyone would in his place. If we stick to what we know, then the advantages of Ellanse over PMMA and minimal to none and some cases will be negative. I'm not trying to tell you not to get Ellanse, but just pointing out that idea that it's safer, in real terms, probably isn't true. We were told by Nacul, the creator of Bioplasty, that when injected correctly and into the deeper layer and not the dermis, PMMA doesn't cause FBG. This seemed like a very controversial claim in 2011. The studies of the "cleaner" US PMMA products, injected in tiny volumes, suggested about 2% of patients get FBG. The less clean Artecol, which was comparable to the Brazilian products used in the penis, looked to have a far higher incidence, as much as 10 times, of FBG. So if Nacul's claim wasn't true, given the vast volume injected into the penis, we should have seen a large number of FBG over the last 7 years. However, we've seen potentially 2. One of those was treated immediately with surgery, none of the advised treatments occurred. The other interestingly showed that a biofilm was present. Keep in mind the one study there is on volume filling with PMMA in the penis, has over 200 patients, followed over 7 years and none reported a FBG. When Miracle had his issue with S1000, his Dr said the PMMA was invisible to the immune system. So everything we've seen, both on this forum and in the one published study, suggests that when inject correctly, not into the skin (where there are far more immune cells) PMMA doesn't seem to cause FBG's at anywhere near the rate it would when injected into the skin. But we do know that reactions do happen (Restoration) and we know it's speculated that late onset reactions are due to biofilm infections. The one definite case we've seen showed a biofilm present. So with that in mind, over the course of the first 4 years, there is no reason at all to think PMMA is anymore likely to react than Ellanse. We also know that most reactions will rear their head in the first year anyway. Technically it's possible they could happen later, but most likely earlier. I totally understand your point that once the Ellanse is gone one doesn't have to worry about late onset reactions. However, in reality, is it not likely that anyone who gets Ellanse in the next couple of years is going to go back and get it again? So you once again risk introducing infection. We know the chances of this are very small, but we also know that's true of PMMA. But all things being equal (ie 1 round per filler), the Ellanse patients and twice as likely to see an infection get in. So I completely understand your logic and if everyone was only going to have one round on either filler, then I think you are right, Ellanse is safer, but by the tiniest of margins, based on the premise it's technically possible a FBG could be triggered later on, though we've never seen it. However, in a more likely situation, where the patient wants to maintain his Ellance enhancement, it's probably not as safe as having PMMA would have been. There is of course a much safer option, which is HA. But the idea that Ellanse has great advantages over PMMA, really isn't true in most cases. I'm really not trying to tell people not to get Ellanse and go for PMMA instead. I'm just trying to point out the idea of Ellanse being safer because it's temporary is a bit misguided and it really should be ranked alongside PMMA, not HA, in terms of safety. Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTg4NjIxMi1wbW1hLW9yLWVsbGFuc2UuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0xJnN0YXJ0PTMw) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: PMMA or Ellanse? 7 years 9 months ago [\#1306065861](#1306065861) - **[biggy](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5836159-biggy.html "View biggy's Profile")** - [![biggy's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5836159-biggy.html "View biggy's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5836159-biggy.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 107 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=5836159) > mediatps wrote: Can anyone tell me how much softer Ellanse will be over PMMA? Is it logical that they will be the same firmness because of the collagen. I am thinking that Ellanse might be better at hiding slight aesthetic abnormailites because it is a little softer and won't be so obvious to the touch. Can this be backed up at all? The only difference between these fillers in real terms, is what the particles are made of. They all work in the same way, even silicone micro droplets. PMMA comes in different concentrations. 10% is obviously going to be softer than 30%. I'm not sure what percentage of Ellanse is particles and what is carrier, but the density of the collagen will depend on the amount and size of particles. All that happens with these particulate fillers is that your body recognises they are foreign and walls them off in collagen. It doesn't recognise brands of filler. So it's the amount of particles that really makes the difference to how the filler feels. The more tightly packed they are, the more dense (ie noticeable) the collagen will be. Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTg4NjIxMi1wbW1hLW9yLWVsbGFuc2UuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0xJnN0YXJ0PTMw) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: PMMA or Ellanse? 7 years 9 months ago [\#1306066121](#1306066121) - **[think](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile")** - [![think's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar5799362.png?1575050907)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 338 - Thanks: 13 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=5799362) Ellanse is 30 percent PCL. [ drsiew.com/ellanse-everything-need-know-...-stimulating-filler/](https://drsiew.com/ellanse-everything-need-know-collagen-stimulating-filler/) See the graph which indicates when the carrier is gone. I have been unable to find anything about how long the generated collagen lasts, other than a post by Dr oates saying that the half-life is 15 years. I am guessing he may have gotten that from a non public access medical journal. Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTg4NjIxMi1wbW1hLW9yLWVsbGFuc2UuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0xJnN0YXJ0PTMw) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: PMMA or Ellanse? 7 years 9 months ago [\#1305844431](#1305844431) - **[Reklaw](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4324840-reklaw.html "View Reklaw's Profile")** - [![Reklaw's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4324840-reklaw.html "View Reklaw's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4324840-reklaw.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 1361 - Thanks: 3 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4324840) Nobody is going to tell you which option to choose, all I can say is that if I had the option of both, I'd be tempted to go to Italy, but I have less to lose because my previous procedure made my penis irreversibly worse than it was before. Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTg4NjIxMi1wbW1hLW9yLWVsbGFuc2UuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0xJnN0YXJ0PTMw) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: PMMA or Ellanse? 7 years 9 months ago [\#1305849303](#1305849303) - **[Herbert\_West](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4212657-herbert-west.html "View Herbert_West's Profile")** - [![Herbert_West's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4212657-herbert-west.html "View Herbert_West's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4212657-herbert-west.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 400 - Thanks: 3 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4212657) > mediatps wrote: I guess one more advantage of Ellanse is that if there are some amazing developments in the world of Phalloplasty over the next 5-10 years you may still be able to make the most of them. Committing to PMMA now may reduce your chance of being suitable for other more effective methods in the future? Just playing devil's advocate but really trying to understand and make an informed decision. I'm afraid that there's a strong chance that this will not happen nor in 5 nor 10 years.Do you have any reliable information or at least your own assumption of what it could be? Like some new or some old improved injectable filler? Are you talking about this area? Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTg4NjIxMi1wbW1hLW9yLWVsbGFuc2UuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0xJnN0YXJ0PTMw) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: PMMA or Ellanse? 7 years 9 months ago [\#1305853143](#1305853143) - **[Dekachin](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2034978-dekachin.html "View Dekachin's Profile")** - [![Dekachin's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2034978-dekachin.html "View Dekachin's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/2034978-dekachin.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 111 - Thanks: 7 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=2034978) > biggy wrote: > What information? I've pointed out the total absence of information on Ellanse as a high volume filler. What information do you have to contradict that? > > They aren't my medically unsupported theories, I merely posted the theories of medical professionals. If it was spoken with the confidence of an experienced physician, it's because I learned it reading the work of experienced physicians. I did comprehensive research and reviewed actual medical papers before getting my procedure. Hence I was aware of this and am sharing it with the forum. > > Here are some quotes regarding biofilms infections and reactions to fillers from a few studies: > > "biofilms form when bacteria is introduced during filler injections or are seeded in the filler during bacteriaemic episodes.14 Once present, they remain dormant for months or years on the surface of the filler and become a target of a delayed immune response, resulting in granuloma formulation." > > > "Based on their clinical course and response to treatment, most reported hypersensitivity reactions are likely due to an infectious process" > > > "Delayed reactions associated with dermal fillers have often been attributed to hypersensitivity reactions; however, the evolving literature suggests that biofilms may represent an underrecognized cause and a difficult diagnosis to establish" > > "The biofilm can either be dormant or active depending upon the external triggering factor. When the cell metabolism shuts down, it becomes dormant (persister). Thus it gets out of reach for antibiotics and also becomes difficult to culture in vitro." > > [ aestheticsjournal.com/feature/granuloma-management](https://aestheticsjournal.com/feature/granuloma-management) > > [ www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2890130/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2890130/) > > [ www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25207761](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25207761) > > [ www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21246453](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21246453) Biggy as Ellanse filler dissolves in 12 weeks, would not the bacteria show up by that period and not months and years? Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTg4NjIxMi1wbW1hLW9yLWVsbGFuc2UuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0xJnN0YXJ0PTMw) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: PMMA or Ellanse? 7 years 9 months ago [\#1305869783](#1305869783) - **[Southdub](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4701651-southdub.html "View Southdub's Profile")** - [![Southdub's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4701651-southdub.html "View Southdub's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4701651-southdub.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 175 - Thanks: 8 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4701651) Go non permanent. PMMA has great reviews soon after but then with time it hardens and clumps. The reviews of the Dr. in Italy are to early to call. wait till patients are a year or two out before you judge the reviews. Dr. N had great reviews first but then went bad with time as complications that occurred sometime after procedure happened to her patients. No reason the same won't happen to the other doctor when they are using the exact same filler. The review by the Dr in Italy is a bit manic TBH. PMMA from my experience seems to harden and clump. I am 21 months out from just one procedure in the last few weeks I have noticed it has got even harder and clumped into one big lump running down shaft that can easily pulled away from shaft when Flaccid. IT IS STILL CHANGING NEARLY TWO YEARS AFTER PROCEDURE. If you just care what the tape says and not on aesthetics and particularly feeling then maybe PMMA is best for you. Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTg4NjIxMi1wbW1hLW9yLWVsbGFuc2UuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0xJnN0YXJ0PTMw) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: PMMA or Ellanse? 7 years 9 months ago [\#1305846239](#1305846239) - **[Gg82](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/3985692-gg82.html "View Gg82's Profile")** - [![Gg82's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/3985692-gg82.html "View Gg82's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/3985692-gg82.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 232 - Thanks: 16 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=3985692) > Ellanse > - If things look terrible then its not for the rest of your life! Hoddle10 had a really good point about this one. While it is true, and for the long term i would get Ellanse for this specific reason, you have to consider that short term complications for Ellanse and PMMA are basically the same. Things like granulomas, infections, lumps etc. you can't live with for 4 years (or more, because we don't actually know if it lasts more than that) so you would have to take the exact same medical measures to solve them, unless you would accept to live with them for years. Just food for thoughts. Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTg4NjIxMi1wbW1hLW9yLWVsbGFuc2UuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0xJnN0YXJ0PTMw) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: PMMA or Ellanse? 7 years 9 months ago [\#1305850339](#1305850339) - **[biggy](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5836159-biggy.html "View biggy's Profile")** - [![biggy's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5836159-biggy.html "View biggy's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5836159-biggy.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 107 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=5836159) > think wrote: See Dr. Alter's comment that I referenced. The benefit of Ellanse regarding that particular concern is that it will be gone in 4 years time. I follow your logic with complications arising in the first year, but I don't see why you can't see the benefit of Ellanse in that regard. > > And I read 3 of the 4 papers that you listed on biofilms. That applies to all fillers, and is not a reason to opt for PMMA over Ellanse. Also, it's not like you only have the Ellanse clinical studies to go by, as PCL has a 40 year history of safety in biomedical applications and FDA approval. I'm sure that physicians like Dr. Oats and Dr. Morganstern, who are concerned with safety, took that into account before they started offering it. The credentials from Morganstern's practice include a chief Urologist at a leading teaching university. They tend to know how to do medical research. Dr Alter didn't say anything we didn't already know or worry about. He wasn't revealing anything, just cautioning. I was just saying that in studies done on fillers, the majority of complications are reported in years 1-5 and not beyond. Most complications occur in the first year. That's also what we've observed from PhalloBoards over the last 7 years. So the point I was making is that we don't actually have any real evidence of late onset complications of PMMA in large volumes, beyond one year. Where this get interesting is that it's postulated that fillers are far less likely to react when injected under the dermis, than actually into it, due to far fewer immune cells. This probably explains why we'e seen so few complications. The relevance of the biofilm studies isn't to compare PMMA and Ellanse directly, but to highlight the school of thought that these late reactions are due to biofilm infections. If you have a biofilm infection they can be impossible to treat. The advantage of HA is that you can dissolve the filler and then treat the infection. You can't do that with either Ellanse or PMMA. You can't just leave the infection either, so intervention is required, hence the "advantage" Ellanse being temporary is negated. Now I totally understand your point that with Ellanse you only have to worry about this for 4 years, but after that time, most people are still likely to want a bigger penis and will have to have it filled again. It's hugely unlikely that something that offers the same benefits as PMMA or Ellanse is going to come along in the next 10 years. On top of that, late onset of granulomas reaction from PMMA, in the penis, seems to be totally absent in the literature and from all the cases we have here. In short I don't think we've ever encountered an issue with PMMA, that required a dramatic intervention, that came after the life span of Ellanse products. But I totally understand your point about hoping something better comes along in the future and therefore you like the fact Ellanse lasts only 4 years. Also Reklaw does make the point that for teenagers and younger men, a stop gap option may suit them. But I think there is little chance of anything in the next 10 or so. Ultimately, if these late onset reactions are caused by biofilms that get in at the time of injection, any non reversible procedure that requires redoing every few years, is probably more risky than a one off permanent procedure (i know people keep going back for more and more but that's a choice), unless you only do it once and then decide you don't want it again. Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTg4NjIxMi1wbW1hLW9yLWVsbGFuc2UuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0xJnN0YXJ0PTMw) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: PMMA or Ellanse? 7 years 9 months ago [\#1305865187](#1305865187) - **[mediatps](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html "View mediatps's Profile")** - [![mediatps's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html "View mediatps's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 147 - Thanks: 1 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4949269) What I dont understand is if both fillers are collagen stimulators why the collagen growth stimulated by the Ellanse disappears and the PMMA collagen doesnt? Does your body just digest the collagen when the Ellanse eventually dissolves? I would of thought the collagen would stay regardless of whether the Ellanse was there or not!? Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTg4NjIxMi1wbW1hLW9yLWVsbGFuc2UuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0xJnN0YXJ0PTMw) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: PMMA or Ellanse? 7 years 9 months ago [\#1305849572](#1305849572) - **[Gg82](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/3985692-gg82.html "View Gg82's Profile")** - [![Gg82's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/3985692-gg82.html "View Gg82's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/3985692-gg82.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 232 - Thanks: 16 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=3985692) > Herbert West wrote: > I'm afraid that there's a strong chance that this will not happen nor in 5 nor 10 years.Do you have any reliable information or at least your own assumption of what it could be? Like some new or some old improved injectable filler? Are you talking about this area? Well, look where we were 10 years ago. No good option avaible, literally stone age of PE. I've no idea what we'll have in 5-10 years, but who can really know. Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTg4NjIxMi1wbW1hLW9yLWVsbGFuc2UuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0xJnN0YXJ0PTMw) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: PMMA or Ellanse? 7 years 9 months ago [\#1307765742](#1307765742) - **[Viduka](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1725602-viduka.html "View Viduka's Profile")** - [![Viduka's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1725602-viduka.html "View Viduka's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/1725602-viduka.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 9 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=1725602) @Androfill You seem to promote HA over Ellanse for safety reasons. How many Ellanse procedures have you done so far? Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTg4NjIxMi1wbW1hLW9yLWVsbGFuc2UuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0xJnN0YXJ0PTMw) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: PMMA or Ellanse? 7 years 9 months ago [\#1306065134](#1306065134) - **[mediatps](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html "View mediatps's Profile")** - [![mediatps's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html "View mediatps's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4949269-mediatps.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 147 - Thanks: 1 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4949269) Can anyone tell me how much softer Ellanse will be over PMMA? Is it logical that they will be the same firmness because of the collagen. I am thinking that Ellanse might be better at hiding slight aesthetic abnormailites because it is a little softer and won't be so obvious to the touch. Can this be backed up at all? Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTg4NjIxMi1wbW1hLW9yLWVsbGFuc2UuaHRtbD9tYXJrZG93bj0xJnN0YXJ0PTMw) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. 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