--- title: "HA injection alternatives - PhalloBoards - Phalloboards" description: "HI All Just was wondering if anyone was aware of who is doing HA injecting besides the calibre clinics in Australia" url: "https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/general-phalloplasty-discussion-archive/9804614-ha-injection-alternatives.html" date: "2026-08-06T16:53:59+00:00" language: "en-GB" --- PhalloBoards - An Online Community to Discuss Penile Girth Enhancement General Forum Doctors Forum Username Password Remember me - [ Forgot your password? ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/component/users/reset.html?Itemid=101) - [ Forgot your username? ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/component/users/remind.html?Itemid=101) - [ Create an account ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) # TOPIC: HA injection alternatives ## Re: HA injection alternatives 8 years 1 week ago [\#1304940569](#1304940569) - **[think](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile")** - [![think's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar5799362.png?1575050907)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 338 - Thanks: 13 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=5799362) There are practices all over the place that offer it. What geographical area are you looking for? Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTgwNDYxNC1oYS1pbmplY3Rpb24tYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MQ==) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: HA injection alternatives 8 years 1 week ago [\#1304981031](#1304981031) - **[think](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile")** - [![think's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar5799362.png?1575050907)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 338 - Thanks: 13 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=5799362) > aces wrote: Cant say enough good about Morganstern/Carney team I spoke to them last week Dr Carney asked me 3 times am I 100% satisfied he really cares about his work to my understanding Morgenstern is no longer doing procedures and only working ED Patients and the business side but I could be wrong about this I have seen both Drs and both were excellent I also liked the fixed price when I did 1&2 he asked me how much and I said lets see how full you can make it Thanks again I am emailing them. EDIT: the email address listed on the site bounced. I filled out the form, I'll see if they email or call, otherwise may just need to call them. Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTgwNDYxNC1oYS1pbmplY3Rpb24tYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MQ==) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: HA injection alternatives 8 years 1 week ago [\#1304979752](#1304979752) - **[think](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile")** - [![think's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar5799362.png?1575050907)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 338 - Thanks: 13 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=5799362) > aces wrote: I have not had any side effects, things work perfect and great esthetics I have had at min 50 ml 2 heavy rounds the clinic I used doesn't charge per ml rather by the job going up a Inch and keeping it takes a lot of volume in my case I over shoot the fill and it tapers to smooth after the swelling goes down.. in any cosmetic procedure things are not perfect but id give this a solid 95% no scars no ED the voluma is firm and in general if your on the fence this is not a big deal I have had dental work that was more dramatic the only issues are cost and annual touch ups If you have the cash to drop 5-10k year on this then don't let anything else get in your way if you don't like it the first round will dissolve quick its the layering that gets you more time id guess 6 months tops round 1 and 18-24months round 2 but everyone's different > > YOLO Great, thanks for the info! I assume that was Morganstern, and I am also considering them. I'm in the NYC area and just posted a link to a local doctor who seems to have good reviews, and he'd be about $10.5K for 15ml voluma. Sounds like it would be worth the trip. Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTgwNDYxNC1oYS1pbmplY3Rpb24tYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MQ==) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: HA injection alternatives 8 years 1 week ago [\#1304950897](#1304950897) - **[think](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile")** - [![think's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar5799362.png?1575050907)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 338 - Thanks: 13 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=5799362) For example: [ www.shaferplasticsurgery.com/male-proced...y/penis-enhancement/](https://www.shaferplasticsurgery.com/male-procedures-new-york-city/penis-enhancement/) Never heard of this guy, just googled. Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTgwNDYxNC1oYS1pbmplY3Rpb24tYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MQ==) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: HA injection alternatives 8 years 1 week ago [\#1304952967](#1304952967) - **[think](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile")** - [![think's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar5799362.png?1575050907)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 338 - Thanks: 13 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=5799362) This guy seems to be coming up a lot more than in the past. [ www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/swag-pe...hafer-300569313.html](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/swag-penis-enlargement-procedure-developed-in-new-york-city-by-top-plastic-surgeon-dr-david-shafer-300569313.html) Voluma vs radiess... he offers both, I recall Dr. C having a preference to radiess but there were some guys on here who had it absorb quickly... never an easy decision. Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTgwNDYxNC1oYS1pbmplY3Rpb24tYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MQ==) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: HA injection alternatives 8 years 1 week ago [\#1305103252](#1305103252) - **[BigManX](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4655380-bigmanx.html "View BigManX's Profile")** - [![BigManX's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4655380-bigmanx.html "View BigManX's Profile") Topic Author - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4655380-bigmanx.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 54 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4655380) What is the average top up ml? after 1.5 years? Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTgwNDYxNC1oYS1pbmplY3Rpb24tYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MQ==) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: HA injection alternatives 8 years 1 week ago [\#1304998054](#1304998054) - **[think](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile")** - [![think's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar5799362.png?1575050907)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 338 - Thanks: 13 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=5799362) > Dr Oates wrote: Hi members, > > Sorry not been on the site for a while. I am in discussions with a couple of groups about training and taking on the Calibre procedure - looking at North America and UK. We still do mostly HA but also Ellanse they each have a place. Hopefully more news to come soon! Looking forward to hearing more, and a possible timeframe. Ellanse will not be available in the US though, correct? Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTgwNDYxNC1oYS1pbmplY3Rpb24tYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MQ==) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: HA injection alternatives 8 years 1 week ago [\#1304980391](#1304980391) - **[aces](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4909679-aces.html "View aces's Profile")** - [![aces's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4909679-aces.html "View aces's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4909679-aces.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 24 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4909679) Cant say enough good about Morganstern/Carney team I spoke to them last week Dr Carney asked me 3 times am I 100% satisfied he really cares about his work to my understanding Morgenstern is no longer doing procedures and only working ED Patients and the business side but I could be wrong about this I have seen both Drs and both were excellent I also liked the fixed price when I did 1&2 he asked me how much and I said lets see how full you can make it Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTgwNDYxNC1oYS1pbmplY3Rpb24tYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MQ==) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: HA injection alternatives 8 years 1 week ago [\#1304976056](#1304976056) - **[Johnson](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/3349334-johnson.html "View Johnson's Profile")** - [![Johnson's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/3349334-johnson.html "View Johnson's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/3349334-johnson.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 41 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=3349334) You will hate your HA after a while.. It absorbs water and gets sooo squishy the women you're with wont feel a thing Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTgwNDYxNC1oYS1pbmplY3Rpb24tYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MQ==) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: HA injection alternatives 8 years 1 week ago [\#1304996286](#1304996286) - **[Dr\_Oates](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4460953-dr-oates.html "View Dr_Oates's Profile")** - [![Dr_Oates's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar4460953.jpg?1569480001)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4460953-dr-oates.html "View Dr_Oates's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4460953-dr-oates.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 688 - Thanks: 51 - - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4460953) Hi members, Sorry not been on the site for a while. I am in discussions with a couple of groups about training and taking on the Calibre procedure - looking at North America and UK. We still do mostly HA but also Ellanse they each have a place. Hopefully more news to come soon! Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTgwNDYxNC1oYS1pbmplY3Rpb24tYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MQ==) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: HA injection alternatives 8 years 1 week ago [\#1304978119](#1304978119) - **[think](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile")** - [![think's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar5799362.png?1575050907)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 338 - Thanks: 13 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=5799362) > aces wrote: I live in the Midwest and have been traveling to ATL for top ups on my HA Voluma does anyone have knowledge of a physician in the MIDWEST that can do the touch ups I am sure there is options out there in my area I am very happy with the outcome but every time I travel its a 3 day affair I live in Minnesota but Chicago is a day trip for me How long have you had your voluma in, and how many ml total? Seems you didn't observe what Johnson said above? Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTgwNDYxNC1oYS1pbmplY3Rpb24tYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MQ==) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: HA injection alternatives 8 years 1 week ago [\#1304968919](#1304968919) - **[aces](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4909679-aces.html "View aces's Profile")** - [![aces's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4909679-aces.html "View aces's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4909679-aces.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 24 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4909679) I live in the Midwest and have been traveling to ATL for top ups on my HA Voluma does anyone have knowledge of a physician in the MIDWEST that can do the touch ups I am sure there is options out there in my area I am very happy with the outcome but every time I travel its a 3 day affair I live in Minnesota but Chicago is a day trip for me Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTgwNDYxNC1oYS1pbmplY3Rpb24tYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MQ==) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: HA injection alternatives 8 years 1 week ago [\#1304979419](#1304979419) - **[aces](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4909679-aces.html "View aces's Profile")** - [![aces's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4909679-aces.html "View aces's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4909679-aces.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 24 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4909679) I have not had any side effects, things work perfect and great esthetics I have had at min 50 ml 2 heavy rounds the clinic I used doesn't charge per ml rather by the job going up a Inch and keeping it takes a lot of volume in my case I over shoot the fill and it tapers to smooth after the swelling goes down.. in any cosmetic procedure things are not perfect but id give this a solid 95% no scars no ED the voluma is firm and in general if your on the fence this is not a big deal I have had dental work that was more dramatic the only issues are cost and annual touch ups If you have the cash to drop 5-10k year on this then don't let anything else get in your way if you don't like it the first round will dissolve quick its the layering that gets you more time id guess 6 months tops round 1 and 18-24months round 2 but everyone's different YOLO Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTgwNDYxNC1oYS1pbmplY3Rpb24tYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MQ==) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: HA injection alternatives 8 years 1 week ago [\#1305019871](#1305019871) - **[think](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile")** - [![think's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/avatars/resized/size144/users/avatar5799362.png?1575050907)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html "View think's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/5799362-think.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 338 - Thanks: 13 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=5799362) I emailed some specific questions to Dr. Shafer in NYC, will post back if they respond. Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTgwNDYxNC1oYS1pbmplY3Rpb24tYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MQ==) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. ## Re: HA injection alternatives 8 years 1 week ago [\#1304997088](#1304997088) - **[aces](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4909679-aces.html "View aces's Profile")** - [![aces's Avatar](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/core/svg/person.svg)](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4909679-aces.html "View aces's Profile") - [ Offline](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/general-forum/user/4909679-aces.html) - General - ![General](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/media/kunena/ranks/rank1.gif) - Posts: 24 - Thanks: 0 - [ ](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/pms.html?task=new&recip=4909679) Dr Houge maple grove MN does FFT/PRP I've consulted with him about HA he said he would but hasn't done it before he's a pioneeer in this market I've met him personally he seemed intrigued when I mentioned this procedure I'd start w/that group Please [Log in](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/login.html?return=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuajQucGhhbGxvYm9hcmRzLmluZm8vZ2VuZXJhbC1mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLXBoYWxsb3BsYXN0eS1kaXNjdXNzaW9uLWFyY2hpdmUvOTgwNDYxNC1oYS1pbmplY3Rpb24tYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLmh0bWw/bWFya2Rvd249MQ==) or [Create an account](https://www.j4.phalloboards.info/register.html) to join the conversation. 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