TOPIC: Average gain PMMA

@ Jason Good to hear from you! You say gains are still there. I seem to remember you gained 0.75? did you drop any of that?

Hi guys, I was just wondering what the typical gain would be for each session starting with the first.
So far, I would say that it goes like this (on average)
1st session: .05 gain.
2nd session: .03 gain.
3rd session: ?
Thoughts?

My guess (which is somewhat educated, as I'm a medical doctor) is that the carrier may contribute to initial growth, but that is of little consequence in the long run. Due to tissue remodelling, any excess collagen, i.e. collagen not in the direct vicinity of the macrophages containing the PMMA beads, will eventually be broken down. I'm not sure how long this process wil take, but I think this explains why people tend to lose some Girth after six months. In essence this is also what occurs in any small wound or lesion, scar tissue, which of course is also collagen, will initially be hypertrophic, but tends to diminish over time, up until a point where it is hardly visible most of the time. I'll bet the issue of "diminishing returns" is also caused by tissue remodelling.
In some people, mostly those of African descent, scar tissue actually tends to grow over time (keloidal scars). I'm curious if this can also occur in PMMA bioplasty.

@smartman -

If the PMMA is more affixed to the skin and Dartos muscle with additional rounds of PMMA, does second and third rounds of PMMA cause less and less penile retraction by stiffening up the tissue?

I'm curious because my retraction so far is far less than before PMMA and I've only had 1 round. it would be great if it retracted less and less. I like the look of the hang.

Hi Skatezy,

Good question! What I've found when researching PMMA used as a filler is lots of descriptions of foreign body granulomas but not much mention of the actual incidence. I found one mention in one article that in one small study, the incidence was 0.01%. The rest of the articles merely state that the incidence is "very rare" or something similar.

I'm encouraged by the idea that most of the granulomas respond well to serial Kenalog injections. There was one mention of one patient whose granulomas subsided after treatment with allopurinol, which is an oral medication. It seems that surgical exision is also a rare necessity.

So given the ideas that there are risks to any procedure, PMMA is being widely used outside the US, the incidence of granulomas seems very low, the treatment seems uncomplicated and the response to treatment is good for the most part, I'm confident in my decision to proceed with the procedure. I'm not advocated for or against because we all have to determine what level of risk we are comfortable with when it comes to our bodies, I'm just stating that given what I've seen of the procedure, including the risks, and the positive outcomes I've seen so far, I personally am comfortable going forward and having it done.

I wonder if stressing the PMMA such as Hanging or a good ADS with significant tension would cause some type of micro tearing of the PMMA and therefore open it up for additional collagen growth as it repaired the micro tearing? I'm no doctor but like to think and this is one of my favorite subjects to think on. I will start Hanging again next month once I know I'm sufficiently healed from the first PMMA procedure.

smartman wrote:
I agree with you (( In theory 10cc 30%, 15cc 20%, 30cc 10% and 60cc 5% all have the same amount of PMMA )) and I have mentioned this before :-

1 cc of 30% has 9 million PMMA beads1 cc of 20% has 6 million PMMA beads1 cc of 10% has 3 million PMMA beadsAnd of course 1 cc of 5% has 1.5 million PMMA beads
So in the volumes you mentioned as an example (10cc 30%, 15cc 20%, 30cc 10% and 60cc 5%) you will have 90 million PMMA beads in each case.

All each example will have 90 million beads, but the 30% will only have 7cc of carrier and the 5% will have 57cc. This is why I think the 30% will be more dense and the 5% will give more overall volume. I think the closer together the beads, the more dense the collagen, but the more spread out the beads are, the more space for growth. This could be complete nonsense, but it would definitley explain the dimishing returns we are seeing. Eastender recently reported a 0.5" gain from 30cc of 30%. Olafspo reported he can hardly notice his gains with the same 30cc at 30%. Yet we've seen guys getting 0.5" from 10%. Guys such as yourself with 30% have described the way 30% feels in a slightly different way to guys at 20%, who in turn seem to think that theirs feels firmer than 10%. So maybe it has to have something to do with how evenly spread out the beads are. Unless I'm missing something, surely 90 million beads in a 60cc solution must be spaced further apart than 90 million in a 10cc solution.

@ smartman Great post. Last time I spoke to Wade he had only had the one round and it was something like 10cc an only in particular areas from what he told me! However he had it done not long before I saw him so I know nothing about what shrinkage he had at the 3 months mark!!

Can shrink all the way up to 6 months post op from what I've read ... (medical literature and patient PR's). I've found the advice and knowledge of smartman a valuable asset and a voice of experience to rely on in such unfamiliar territory.

@ M7 !!!!!!!!!!!! Really? I know you were dissappointed with your first round. I guess you just gotta tell the good DR so they can overcompensate next time. Its hard for me t be precise with my gains as I had FFT only 6 weeks before but I would say my average gain over three session was 0.4 each session. This include the first session being at 10%. I am now at 1 week over 2 months months since last time so things ought to have settled a bit but I could still shrink more.